Friday, September 24, 2010

Corp members and the market

I checked the forums to see the following post from a corp member

"I just bought a 1600mm plate in aldrat earlier today expecting it to be from an out of corp trader. It was from a manager in the uni. The only problem I have with that at all is the fact that the module was 1mil isk over market value. Now, I understand people want to trade and make a profit. But personally when I do put up market stuff in aldrat I make it for only very slightly above hek price during war times and most other times. Sure I make a small profit but the point is really to make things available to the uni during war. At least have the decency to use an alt to put things up for sale.

I think that's a dirty move especially coming from someone I see freely commenting on what people should be doing for the good of the uni. Don't think people don't notice these things. I for one keep track of who I feel is after personal profit over the good of the corp. Not that I'm important in uni or can do anything about it, but in my opinion if you're a manager or really any leadership position in uni and you're fleecing people for 1 mil per module under your uni character you're kind of a tool. Just an opinion. I'm fully prepared for "waaaaaah that's why I haul and trade, traders need to make a profit too, etc. etc." That's bullshit imo. There's plenty of trading to do, you're making easy money by taking advantage of your corpmates. End of story as far as I see it. Is it against the rules? No. Is it a wanker move? Up to you to decide I guess.

Just an opinion, care-bear traders flame away, but taking advantage of the war-time sop and fleecing your corp mates is a low move in this uni member's eyes."

Now, for a lot of alliances (mostly 0.0), its rather routine for people in the corporation to stock the market, and to make a profit doing so.  They do the effort of hauling, and someone else pays them for their convenience.  Now, the Uni already has numerous programs to help students gather their needed items and fittings.  The conversation started along those lines, with the next post being

"If you didn't like it being high, don't buy it? Or maybe buy a lower meta item? or purchase ahead of the war?
Don't see the problem here, as no one is forced to purchase anything, and the uni provides plenty of modules for wartime use free of charge."

The conversation then had the normal amount of EVE trolling, followed by several umad comments (gotta love normal EVE discourse).

However,  the general tone of the conversation was inflammatory, including the by author who posted the original comment about people in the Uni not treating others right via the market (love the irony).

My first response "Oh dear, I really don't know what to say to this one. I typically never play the markets @ hq (mostly because they are too small), but god knows how many uni players have bought something overpriced from me in Jita at some point. Playing the market is an officially recognized way of making money during wartime.

Now, if someone was purposefully manipulating the aldrat market to raise prices and rip off students, I still wouldn't criticize their morals, just their I or any other market trader would quickly bring a freighter load of stuff in to undercut them, and a 1500 person corp has plenty of traders.

People will ALWAYS pay more than market hub cost to buy something nearby, as they value the convenience of the item immediately to be worth the price difference (as you did). There is nothing abnormal about having off-hub items priced high. In fact, I'd also criticize the intelligence of someone who posted things in aldrat for lower prices intending them for uni students, as those items would just be bought by an OOC person and relisted.

The uni has numerous ways to save players isk, but we don't like to interfere with the money making aspects of our members, except when it will cause harm to the Uni's reputation (scamming, ninja-salvage, etc...)"

Of course, it then devolved even further, with the OP continuing to express his feelings.

How does everyone else feel about this?  Personally, I see it as pointless drama over a normal EVE function, and can't really figure out why someone would be so worked up that an item they voluntarily bought at above market in a non-hub system was listed by a corp member, and their own attitude greatly annoyed me.


  1. Stuff's worth whatever the fool pays for it. If you can get people to pay you 3x the real value, go for it.
    Everyone that've been playing the game for longer than a week knows about trade hubs and that the market is cheaper in certain places compared to others.
    If you spot a gap in market supply and you bring that stuff over (or produce it nearby), you deserve a bigger profit than someone bringing over an item that's already listed 8943123 times.

  2. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and his opinion is that you're an ass. I disagree with this, and he should know better than going and calling someone a "wanker" (especially a corpmate, on a forum he agreed to be respectful on) because they make a profit on the market.

    Stuff like that is what makes people disrespect you.

    I've definitely lost some respect for the member in question... Sorry, dude.



  3. IMHO this is a nonissue. The item in question should have been in the hangers. Even if not as its already been stated the buyer had a choice and made it. There's a lot more things in EVE to be worried about than this.

  4. It was probably 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Which is meta4, and therefore won't be in the hangar.

  5. kk..

    i see both sides of the aurgument here..

    1- its wartime and hence not all unistas can afford to pay the 1mil or what ever extra
    2 - not all unistas have alts that can immediatly go out and buy their stuffs for them
    3 - yes its optional but if u consider this for a BC pilot then its technically part of their T2 tank and how many of us has loled at peeps using t2 plates

    sure the member in question has been rather rude and offensive but in a way its understandable

  6. Buying stuff outside of trade hubs should be a caveat emptor in itself for higher prices (or lower prices in the case of buy orders). I've sold armor plates (the salvage item) quite a few times to Frood Frooster, a manager in the uni, to fill his buy orders around HQ which have been several percent under the market average for the Metro region. Do I complain? No, it was convenient for me to sell them without hauling them, and I was voluntarily filling a buy order on the OPEN market.

    Another point: While it's true that unistas might not be able to afford as much during wartime due to their personal revenue essentially being cut off, the same applies to industrialists in the uni in many ways, and war can simply drive up the price because the said unista industrialist can't mine, can't haul, can't do all their other normal activities. They, like everyone else in the uni, feel the pinch to their pocket when war is declared. So what do they do? Ramp up the price on their sell orders. So what?

  7. When I had Uni toons (I've had 4 different Uni toons over the time I've been playing Eve), I always made it a point of selling good in aldrat from a non-uni "unknown" alt. Mind you, I wasn't necessarily price-gouging or anything, but even a 10% markup on an item over the Hek/Rens price could be enough to make some people throw a fit.

    Staying anonymous if you are a trader is always nice.. regardless of whether you are selling to friends or not.

    Oh, and I LOL'd at the "1 Mil over market price"... If you are so broke that you have to worry about an extra 1 mil ISK, then you obviously should not be flying whatever ship you are fitting with a 1600mm plate. Ask in corp chat if someone can get you a tackler frig from the corp hangar next time.

  8. I paid 500,000 more for some module the other day because I was too lazy to make 4 jumps (2 there, 2 back).

    I will not say what I think of the OP who started the thread (First post I gave a pass, the ones he posted after that should at the very least earn him a chewing out)I will say I don't think the seller was very smart selling from his UNI character if they have been in the UNI a month or two they should have known someone would freak about it. Though if war targets get popped in system it is nice to make isk off them if they are not prepared.

  9. Personally I don't an issue with upselling at any time. There are enough provisions made for Uni members to be able to do what they want to do.

    As a matter of fact Uni members have a huge advantage over those who learn the game and never join EU.

    The big issue with the post and others is that someone can't have a discussion without making rude and personal attack on other people.

    The op just made himself look foolish and did nothing for the cause that he was upset over.

  10. This was par for the course for Dooobles. He's always raging out at this or that.

    When a transaction takes places both buyer and seller have decided that the price is fair. If it wasnt the seller wouldnt sell it at that price and the buyer wouldnt buy it. To then rage out over it is kinda weird.

    I think Korr should remind him of the principles he agreed to follow when he joined the uni.

    "Our members treat all pilots both inside and outside the organization with respect

    Members are expected to be respectful. There will be no tolerance for personal attacks, smack talk, abuse, disparaging remarks and ridicule, either in-game or out."

    As along with the times he has raged at people in game, this is the 2nd time he has been abusive on the forums. The first time being in an AAR where I was frankly embarrassed for the uni.

    Doesnt help that some directors are abusive to the membership at times and set an example for people like this to follow.

  11. I did check the prices for my loot sell orders when the war started. I made sure they reflect the local price level, instead of following Hek prices (or within a few jumps) as I do normally. So yes, I will take the opportunity to earn from special circumstances (as a war).

    But then again, I'm happy to fill any needs ppl might bring up in one of the chat channels for reasonable prices (or even fill reasonable buy orders if I have the time to take a look).

    I think everyone (even Doobles) understand that this is how the system is supposed to work. And that anyone thinking diffrerently can haul stuff from Hek and make them available on the market for a small profit.

  12. I got screwed by not checking the price on a Rifter I bought after getting blown up by Lady S.
    I was trying to reship REALLY quick to get back to the fight and dropped 192 mil on a Rifter. That's right.
    I didn't whine, just shrugged and knew I should have checked the price more closely.
    Nobody puts a gun to anyone's head and makes them pay the price they want for their stuff. If you don't like the price, find an alternative.
    "War Profiteering" is a weak charge in Eve, Uni or not. It's EVE.

  13. @ Ardent.

    The same thing happened to me, I paid 224mil or something for a Caracal. Which wasn't even for myself x_x

  14. I've had kind of the reverse issue, where I just can't have orders filled in Aldrat. Not that I'm severely underpaying, but if it's too expensive just have the patience to wait or go to Hek. Convenience is nice but if you really want the best price, work the market to your advantage. Supporting fellow Unistas is hardly an issue anyways, or shouldnt be.

  15. If you're going to call out a Unista by name and recommend he face disciplinary action, please do have the common courtesy (and the balls) to post with your name, and not as Anonymous. This is directed at Anon 10:25.

  16. Please at least sign posts if you choose to mention names. I purposefully didn't mention specific names, a I wanted a conversation on the topic, not the person.