Thursday, February 23, 2012


With CCP's announcement that they are redoing wardecs, I wanted to share some thoughts.

People seem to discuss wardecs with an “ideal” wardec in their mind, and assume all decs are like this. To see one possible issue with wardecs, lets look at a wardec between two corps. (based on real events)

Corp A is a small group of friends. They are relatively new to the game (<1 year), and like to run missions, mine, etc… Maybe every so often they will try some w-space and get involved in pew-pew. Mostly, they enjoy spending their time playing with one another.  The corp hangars and wallets give them a convenient way to share items and isk with each other. They typically fly in a pocket of a few systems.

Corp B is 1 guy.  It’s a 20m SP alt of an experienced player.  The main is unknown.  

Corp B decides to dec Corp A for the lolz. They didn’t do anything to him, he just saw 2 of them in hulks one day and was bored.  Plus, corp on corp wardecs are dirt cheap.  And he doesn’t just fly around space looking for them.  He has an unknown npc corp alt in a cov-ops run locators, probe out enemies, etc..  Only when he has a warp-in does the actual character in the deccing corp login, warp to the target, and kill it.  He doesn’t stick around for “goodfights”. He logs in, gets a kill, and logs out. If his target has backup, he has a neutral RR alt ready to login and rescue him, along with some friends running neutral RR.

What is Corp As response to this type of wardec?  They could fleet up, but then Corp B just won’t log in the combat character.  They’re fairly casual players, so they don’t have the numbers to always have a fleet going, and even if they get 2-3 guys, they can’t break the neutral RR. It also requires that they stop their normal operations (mining, missions, etc..) and just sit around in a combat fleet. 

What about hiring mercs?  Well, corp B wouldn’t be bothered by mercs. He doesn’t log in for that, its just an alt.  He’ll just play his main until he sees a moment of vulnerability to take advanatage of.  And what merc corp is going to fly permanent combat cover 24/7 in sufficient numbers to protect corp A if they want to mine or mission? The worst part is, they begin to understand that they are never safe.  If he isn't logged in, it means nothing. His alt(s) could easily be monitoring them at any given moment.

There is no effective combat response they can use.  Oh, they could move to somewhere else in high-sec, but he can just follow with no risk (alts or courier contracts to move ships, and a fast moving ship to move the character into position). They could move to low-sec, 0.0, or w-space, but that isn’t the style of play they want.  They don’t want to join a major group (0.0), and a group of their experience and size would be torn apart in low-sec.  They could do 0.0, but they are casual players that don’t want the logistics of living permanently in a hole. They could dissolve the corp, but most people seem to want any reforms of the war-dec system geared to prevent them from doing this.  They usually just wait until corp B gets bored while they don’t play, dissolve the corp, or quit playing eve all together if it goes on too long.

Now, corp B has put some planning into what he does, but does it really take much skill? No. Its something he does because its easy and entertaining. 

How do we design a system that allows for actual combat in high-sec, but involves more aspects of warfare then this?  Something that brings politics, logistics, tactics, and strategy into play? Something where no one is completely safe, but it also isn’t a pay for easy kills type mechanic?

You could say that no-one should form a corp if they aren't ready to handle it, but its somewhat niave to assume that all corps will start completely combat ready for any threat.  Do we expect any corp that forms to be ready to fight off a prolonged assault by (insert major corporation here) from day one?  No. We expect them to handle threats proportional to their skills, and to grow in skills, experience,and maybe players over time. We need a system were small corps can evolve, starting with that small group of friends, and maybe becoming a 200 person strong combat corp in 0.0 two years later.
Now, there is a place for all players to be vulnerable, and for no one to be completely safe, even in highsec.  Decs for the lolz have their place in the culture of eve, but how does it get balanced to give some power to the other corp as well? CCP has their work cut out for them to design a robust system that really enhances EVE’s gameplay, makes combat possible for all corporations, but balances aggressor/defender at the same time.

I am interested to see what approach they decide to take.


  1. The ability to wage that sort of war is actually closer to terrorism. No fixed address and total ability to pick the time and place.

    Options include the current approved Decshield trick, wiping the wardec off onto a willing alliance. The corp of buddies forming a secondary corp of alts and starting over.

    Until something is done to wardecs that and what you have offered is about it.


  2. I agree there isn't much you can do against that type of player as they're pretty much the highsec equivalent of the AFK cloaker.

    I will say, however, those types of people are ridiculously easy to bait using the same tactics they do. Logoffskis in a belt with a juicy bait Orca for example work wonders..and it only takes one or two of those before they start to wonder and get paranoid, realizing they may have bit off more than they can chew. Everytime my alt would get wardecced by a small man griefer corp I rejoiced since it meant easy kills.

  3. Sorry for double post, but opinions aside, and this is just an interesting observation..not saying it needs to be fixed or doesn't, but I find it funny how people complain that PVP in nullsec is pointless becuase of blobs and in highsec the issue is small man griefer corps that they can't hit.

    To be honest, the more I think about it the biggest issue is that EVE favors good organization and the aggressor, regardless of size.

  4. I am all for allowing people to play how they want, the very definition of a "sandbox". It doesn't have to be 100% safe all of the time, but those people who complain about changes to wardecs making things "too safe" are just trying to get people to play the way *they* want, i.e. all PvP all of the time. There's a good middle ground in there somewhere, and hopefully CCP can find it.